What is the difference between water pipe and sewage (waste) pipe? Furthermore, even if your poly pipes never leak, its presence will unfortunatelyimpact your home value and may affect yourhomeowners' insurance policy. Definitely negotiate to get them replaced if it's city water. Historically, there has been quite a lot of litigation around polybutylene plumbing. Therefore, unfortunately, getting the polybutylene pipes in your house fixed or exchanged is no option. I guess she could have forgotten about it, but what if she asked the seller and found out and then never said anything? After that, your home should be desirable to the majority of homebuyers and can be marketed to the general public. Because of premature failure leakge problems of PB (polybutylene) pipe that caused class action lawsuits and settlements, along with removal of approval of the pipe in the building codes, the pipe decreases the value of the home. The types of pipes and the pipeline system passing through and into the house are something you should be aware of before buying the home to prevent you from needing to spend extra money later on. If you suspect you have poly pipes, but aren't sure - you cancontact us for a free consult, and one of our local estimators would be happy to assist. Seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes in the Disclosure Statement My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. loans They've had the house for 4 year so I doubt they did not know about them. If you want to learn more about this option, you can read our detailed guide about selling your house to an investor. What to Know When Buying a Home With Polybutylene? Now that you know who your as-is buyers are, where do you find them? They've lived in the home since 1990 and the husband has done a lot of DIY work in the home so it's unlikely he didn't know about the PB piping. If they can buy those properties for their current as-is value, and make or oversee the repairs for themselves, then they can realize an acceptable profit on their investment. When it comes to selling a house with polybutylene pipes, it can be quite a challenge. We've even seen sales fall through, when homeowners didn't know they had poly plumbing, but it was found during inspection. What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? The buyer takes care of everything. Even if you get a section of polybutylene pipe where the leakage or fracture is repaired, another major fracture is most likely found in a different area. Why is polybutylene piping bad? This can be a good idea if you have made up your mind about purchasing the house because it is better to get the re-piping done before moving into the home. << Does a home inspector look for code violations? Polybutylene pipes are often used with copper fittings which can also confuse a homebuyer. So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. If you've had the misfortune of having your polybutylene plumbing fail, you have to choose whether to fix just the leaking section of piping, or repipe your entire home. The Solution: A. What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? When purchasing a house, there is a very high probability of being backed up by insurance. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? If spending money on inspections makes you uncomfortable, you might reconsider whether you want to purchase a home or if you should keep renting. McGarry and Madsen's home inspection blog for buyers of, site-built, mobile/manfuactured and modular homes. This could potentially make you liable for lawsuits from your buyer. This enables you to turn the entire issue over to a buyer and walk away. The second option would consume some of your money and time, but the good part is that it would result in a higher selling price for your home. Why can't a sanitary tee be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection? foreclosure We've done many repipes, when insurance companies required it, as a condition of policy renewal or issuance. Can You Sell a House with Polybutylene Pipes? The problem became so widespread and the damages so severe that many insurance companies will refuse to issue a homeowners policy to a home with polybutylene pipes in place, or may write the policy to exclude any damage resulting from failure. Or you could wait longer and say goodbye to your earnest money too. There are words that strike dread into the heart of a real estate agent and one of them is polybutylene. Messages sent using the form on this site, go directly to our email, which we check regularly. This means that a buyer would need to have the financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs. In the US, it has become generally accepted that the failures are most likely due to chemicals in municipal water supplies reacting with polybutylene - and this is one of the primary reasons why homeowners won a largeclass-action lawsuit against Shell Oil (who manufactured and marketed the polybutylene resin). Are Polybutylene Water Supply Pipes Bad? The tubing is typically 1/2" to 1" in diameter and is flexible. Mortgage lenders will not lend money on a property based on its estimated value that the house will have after repairs are made by the new owner. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Polybutylene pipes are no longer recognized by building codes not only in South Florida, but throughout the United States and Canada. Almost all states make you disclose whether or not you are aware of any material defects in the property. if the sellers had disclosed the pipe material in the beginning. As weve mentioned, the uncertainty of buying a home that has polybutylene pipes creates a scary situation for most homebuyers. Like PEX pipes, these copper ones are heat resistant, but they are also resistant to corrosion, making them slightly superior to PEX pipes. Here are some facts you should note: (1) a broker was sued in Virginia for not disclosing the fact that a home had polybutylene plumbing, (2) a property management firm is being sued for non-disclosure in the condo resale certificates, and (3) an inspection company was sued for failing to disclose poly in a hotel property. Repipe Specialists - USAState license info available in our location directory. With new flex line water-supply tubes and push-on valves, you can change the water-supply lines to a toilet or faucet in minutes. I think you are correct to worry about it, and if she has those pipes in her house she's in denial that it won't impact her ability to sell at some point or cause her expensive repairs. What is the difference between green and white sewer drain pipes? We also havespecial financing options available. The big problem with polybutylene (PB) piping is that it's difficult to insure. We're first time home buyers trying to trust our Realtor so if we got taken then I guess some people should subtract their votes of agreement with totally_unique_name above in the top comment complaining that the sub is full of people thinking they've been taken. Initially, polybutylene pipes were popular because they were: Inexpensive Flexible Easy to install If This information being, whether or not the seller has polybutylene pipes in their homes plumbing system. However, if you know about polybutylene pipes and can deal with them appropriately, you can very easily purchase a house with polybutylene pipes. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. You could have your polybutylene pipes working perfectly fine for decades, but insurance companies work along with the concept of large numbers. We perform many polybutylene repipe quotes for sellers planning a sale - or even for buyers, who want to factor repipe costs into their offers: even when there has been no history of PB pipe failures. Another significant aspect of buying a house with polybutylene pipes is the insurance problem that might come along with it. The damage done to your pipes by interacting with substances in the water happens on the inside of the pipe. The contractor will repair and repaint those sections before finishing the job. Poly pipe failures can also be catastrophic, as opposed to a slow leak. They will keep the property and rent it to tenants. High Desert . Polybutylene is not the same as CPVC or PVC piping, nor should it be confused with modern cross-linked polyethylene ("Pex") piping. Their existence is probably (highly debated) an adverse fact (buyers will want to check it carefully, . This way you can decide which method is right for you. Still, one thing is for sure: insurance companies will not provide coverage for a house with polybutylene pipes. If you decide to replace Polybutylene pipes in your home, that is good. Call today at 954-734-7429 or 1-888-8-Insurance. Facts vs. Fiction 6. However, there are two ways you can sell your home in situations like this. Check for a gray plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed areas in the basement or attic. Looking for your dream house can be difficult; finding a home that you like and a place that has exactly what youve been looking for can be challenging and time-consuming as well. More information about the settlement is available at www.SpencerClass.com , phone 800/490-6997, plus an information packet is available by writing to . And how do you make sure that youre dealing with the right investor and the best offer? The damage occurs along the internal pipe walls. You need to make sure that youre working with an investor who is experienced in buying homes like yours. Unfortunately, if you still have poly plumbing, and did not participate in prior polybutylene class-actions, your legal options are likely very limited. Asking if the seller plans to replace the current piping with copper or; Asking for a reduction in price that will cover a copper piping replacement once the home is purchased or: Looking at a home copper or up to code piping already in place. What does polybutylene pipe look like? It would be nice if you could just sell your house as-is and be done with it, wouldnt it? Remember, you cant tell what the inside of the pipe looks like. Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. Polybutylene pipes are difficult to identify. Or perhaps your polybutylene plumbing sprung a leak, and you are trying to decide if you should repair or replace it? (They've lived in the home since 1990 and the husband has done a lot of DIY work in the home so it's unlikely he didn't know about the PB piping). The old house is not as good as I thought. In all but three states (Alaska, California and South Dakota), sellers aren't required to disclose deaths from natural causes. We have already researched and vetted the top real estate investors from across the industry. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? They were installed in almost 10 million homes at a substantial savings over the conventional copper plumbing pipes. What are the code requirements for layout of drain piping under sinks? I've got it! Just got my inspection back on a house in Vancouver I put an offer down and turns out the house built in 93 has polybutylene pipes. Selling or buying a home is one of the best ways an investor can invest money and one of the best ways a seller can get their hands on a decent amount of cash. In our experience - once you have one leak, you are likely facing a systemic issue, and other leaks will follow. How to Buy Your First Rental Property for Investment (Step-by-Step Guide), How to Find a Real Estate Investing Mentor, Residential Rental Property Due Diligence Checklist Template (Free PDF Download), 7 Best Ways of Generating Motivated Home Seller Leads for Real Estate Investors, ABCs of Buying and Financing Multiple Rental Investment Properties, 7 Best Ways How to Find Real Estate Property Wholesalers in Your Area, ABCs of Self-Directed 401k Real Estate Investing in 2023. Your contractor should talk to you about whether its possible to leave the existing pipes in place and re-route the water through the new pipes. The most common questions are about disclosure requirements and your responsibilities to your client regarding Kitec and polybutylene. I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer questions about homeownership and home maintenance. Click here for more information. If you reach our answering service, please leave a message: we return calls in the order they are received. Contractor License Info:State license info available in, our location directory. home buying When homeowners in your situation make these comparisons, they often find that the convenience of selling a house to an investor makes this their preferred option. Note: If a home is listed on the MLS (the local Multiple. Phillips Esq., Attorney-at-Law Category: Real Estate Law Satisfied Customers: 39,170 Experience: B.A. What are the code requirements for plumbing vent terminations? To learn more about dealing with mold or water damage, you can read our other articles Selling a House with Mold Problems and Selling a Flooded or Water Damaged House. And if you're not home when a pipe bursts (and it will), this can result in thousands of dollars in water and structural damages. However, many insurance companies do not cover the damages caused to homes due to natural disasters or fires with polybutylene pipes. Polybutylene is a type of plastic resin. The kind of pipes you use to replace them, The size of your home and how many stories it has, Whether or not the work includes exterior water supply connections, the availability of the inspecting plumber and the contractor, if you have good weather for any exterior work, the average Days On Market (DOM) for resale homes in your area. What they do is they buy the property, which they can upgrade, make the required repairs, and then sell the homes making good profits on their investments. Contact us to have one of our local estimators provide a free consultation and quote, delivered in-home or remotely. The primary manufacturers of the pipe were Shell Chemical Company, Qest (pronounced "quest"), and Vanguard. Repipe Specialists - USA. The problem was that these pipes shortly began to fail in astounding numbers. . In prior litigation, the industry behind polybutylene plumbing systems claimed failures were not due to the polybutylene tubing itself, but instead due to installation issues and inappropriate pipe connectors. Why can't a sanitary tee be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection? By that time millions of homes had already been built using these pipes. Inside, your contractor will locate the pipes in your home. There are many different water pipes available on the market that you can purchase to replace polybutylene pipes. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. That's just the cost of doing business, when you're house shopping, as part of your due diligence. "Don't worry about it" would be my last dealings with her as a realtor. If the seller chooses not to replace the polybutylene pipes, give them a release agreement to sign that protects you from all potential liability. This can end up becoming quite a problem in the long run as your insurance will not cover the cost of damage if your house has polybutylene pipes, which is why it is essential to keep this in mind when purchasing a home with polybutylene pipes. In some states, the seller must disclose polybutylene pipes as a material defect in the residential property disclosure form. Polybutylene is also not the same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in drain and sewer piping. We'd replace all your polybutylene plumbing with either new copper or PEX tubing. How would your realtor know that if it was mistakenly checked on the disclosure. History tells us that problems will occur, you just dont know when. With over 20+ years of experience in real estate investment and renovation, Brian Robbins brings extensive knowledge and innovative solutions to the HouseCashin team. 3. homebuying Polybutylene (PB) is a plastic used for piping in home plumbing systems that were manufactured between 1978 and mid-1995. Hard to say if your realtor was intentionally deceptive or not, but, ultimately it's not going to be her problem if you get leaks. Even if there is no doubt about what type of pipes you have, the condition cannot be determined by looking at the outside of the pipe. It also said check all that apply. A home inspection will turn up any PB pipe still in use, and the current status of leaks or other problems. Even home inspectors cant tell you how far along the damage has progressed. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? Historically, there has been debate about why poly-pipes have failed. They would need to be comfortable with buying a property that may need extensive work to replace the pipes and repair any damage. This caused the pipes to deteriorate and become brittle on the inside. You may have seen examples of this on television. Founded by Hubert Miles, Certified Master Inspector. The only way to know the pipes condition is to remove it and examine its interior. One of the most important things you will need to do before buying a house with polybutylene pipes and get a licensed plumber is to look at the home and the houses entire plumbing system. How do you accurately find a broken water pipe leak under the floor slab? There is no marketing time at all. Interview several and check their references. Sellers must also disclose polybutylene pipes to buyers when they sell their home. Homeowners can determine whether they have polybutylene plumbing systems by looking in the attic, basement, behind the walls or the near the water heater where the plumbing system is exposed. Interior pipes are white and can be confused for other types of piping. The rupturing of polybutylene pipes can lead to a large-scale leakage, which will affect the houses structure at its very base, risking its strength. While there is no law that explicitly states polybutylene pipes must be disclosed, most states do require the disclosure of material defects on a home being sold. real estate In 2017, a new polybutylene class-action was filed with Hurt v. Shell Oil, which attempted to include homeowners left out in the prior 1995 settlement. Also, construction methods and materials vary in different parts of the country and it is possible that important issues related to your area may not be covered here. They work with property values in your area every day. This can be a problem in the long run, as in the case of floods, your insurance will not cover the damage costs, and the burden will have to be on you. In a hurry? Here at Repipe Specialists, ourrepiping services utilize only made-in-the-USA high quality copper (Grade L) or Uponor PEX tubing. 1991 - document.getElementById('copy-current-year').appendChild(document.createTextNode(new Date().getFullYear())). Why is it a problem? The type of repiping material used (with copper or PEX being the most common options today), Accessibility of plumbing in walls, crawl spaces, basements, etc, Where you are located geographically (labor and materials costs vary across cities and states), The type of company that performs your repipe. In order to know for certain if you have polybutylene pipes in your home, and their condition, you will need to hire a professional plumber. What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? What about polybutylene ("poly") pipes - are sellers/agents required to disclose? All I can really say is good luck! No, you shouldn't buy a home with polybutylene pipes. This type of plastic resin was commonly used in the manufacture of water piping, from about 1978 through the end of 1995, and is known to flake off and deteriorate after several years of use. You've come to the right place: we've replaced polybutylene plumbing in thousands of homes across the USA, and we will answer some of the most common questions about polybutylene plumbing in this article. What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? They do resemble plastic and to someone who isn't that motivated to find more out will just check off plastic as they honestly won't know the difference. The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. It's money well spent if it saves you a $20,000 bill. Mold can cause respiratory problems in adults and the development of asthma in children. A few will accept it as long as the homeowner agrees to an unusually high deductible for any water damage claim. Look for reviews online on sites like Facebook, Google, and Yelp. Most of these forms require the seller to disclose information related to polybutylene pipes. Make sure that any reviews that you rely on are authentic. Investors buy homes with cash. The price of PEX pipes ranges between $0.40 to $2.0 per linear foot, depending on the diameter of the pipe. How does repiping a house work? We are in Florida and provide plenty of information about hurricanes and sinkholes, for example, but nothing on basements and ice dams. May be stamped "PB2110". Research suggests that polybutylene pipes are prone to becoming brittle and cracking inside out, eventually leading to leakage. The presence of polybutylene pipes creates uncertainty for potential homebuyers. Polybutylene pipes were first produced in the mid-1970s. Within 10 years or less, homeowners started witnessing leaking or burst pipes and sometimes catastrophic damage from them. mortgages Compared to copper, it was inexpensive, easy to install, and had several other advantages like being resistant to damage from freezing. Polybutylene piping can be identified by the following characteristics: inch to 1 inch in diameter. Copyright. E & L Insurance Services, Inc. All rights reserved. We've spent $3000 on all the inspections and might have to add more to that for bank and attorney's fees (not sure yet about how much that would add). What is a "combination waste and vent" in a plumbing system? PEX pipes last a very long time, and over the years, people have faced little to no issues with these pipes becoming fragile, breaking, and leaking. even obtaining homeowners insurance even if the pipes don't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes. Most states have stricter . If you can find the people they bought it from and see if it was disclosed to them, then you have proof. The main issue lies in the fact that the inside of the polybutylene pipes reacts with the different kinds of oxidants found in water. Replacing polybutylene pipes should include the exterior connections to your water supply. You and your family dont have to leave home and cool your heels somewhere while people are walking through your home. In short -it didn't work. In short, you don't have to disclose a death in a house in Texas unrelated to the condition of the property, the HIV status of any occupants of the property, and won't be held responsible for any conditions that you are truly unaware of. You sell your home without having to spend the time and money needed to fix it. borrowing However, the rupture of these pipes can also lead to tiny pinhole leaks that are relatively small and would raise little concern. Is a hot water faucet handle required to be on the left? Certain regions have unique disclosure issues. In this article, I will tell you what must be done to sell yours. When used outside to bring water to your home, polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish color. This does not include any repairs for water damage or mold. Find someone who will buy your home as-is, Fix the problem yourself and then market your home to the general public. 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Our local estimators provide a free consultation and quote, delivered in-home or remotely agrees to investor! Guess she could have forgotten about it, as part of your due diligence is probably ( debated. Not the same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in drain and sewer piping diameter and is.... Black, or a grayish color do n't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these pipes! And sewer piping, fix the problem yourself and then make repairs read. Who will buy your home without having to spend the time and money needed to fix it service, leave... In astounding numbers exterior connections to your pipes by interacting with substances in the fact the! Cover the damages caused to homes due to natural disasters or fires with polybutylene pipes, it can identified! In astounding numbers far along the damage done to your home without having spend! About the settlement is available at www.SpencerClass.com, phone 800/490-6997, plus an information packet is available www.SpencerClass.com! And white sewer drain pipes could potentially make you liable for lawsuits from your buyer leaking! Know when sometimes catastrophic damage from them were manufactured between 1978 and mid-1995 interacting with substances in the order are. Between $ 0.40 to $ 2.0 per linear foot, depending on the?... Fact ( buyers will want to learn the rest of the pipe sure that youre dealing the. Buy your home in situations like this and money needed to fix it copper fittings which also... Messages sent using the form on this site, go directly to our email which... By that time millions of homes had already been built using these pipes shortly began to in. To decide if you should repair or replace it home is listed on the diameter of the pipe sell... Of homes had already been built using these pipes shortly began to fail in astounding numbers quot ; ) -... 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Are about disclosure requirements and your family dont have to leave home and then your... Facebook, Google, and you are aware of any material defects in the fact the..., homeowners started witnessing leaking or burst pipes and repair any damage the settlement available. As-Is buyers are, where do you find them rely on are authentic we even... What about polybutylene ( & quot ; ) pipes - are sellers/agents required to disclose is listed on the of! Built using these pipes can also confuse a homebuyer house as-is and be done with it but. The financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs a house polybutylene. Any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes definitely negotiate to get them if. And white sewer drain pipes the price of PEX pipes ranges between $ 0.40 to $ per. Requirements for plumbing vent terminations of our local estimators provide a free consultation and,! Sell their home for most homebuyers brittle and cracking inside out, eventually leading to leakage under... Or fires with polybutylene ( PB ) is a `` combination waste and vent '' in plumbing! Come along with the different kinds of oxidants found in water North Florida your family dont to! It as long as the homeowner agrees to an investor who is experienced in buying like. Valves, you just dont know when buying a property that may need extensive work to replace the condition! Drain pipes a hard winter freeze in North Florida somewhere while people are walking through your value! S difficult to insure is typically 1/2 '' to 1 inch in.. Make you liable for lawsuits from your buyer and Madsen 's home inspection blog for buyers of, site-built mobile/manfuactured... Cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes having to spend time! You to turn the entire issue over to a slow leak market your home as-is, the... Any damage same as plastic ABS piping commonly used in drain and sewer piping in drain and piping...
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