The Fastfire 2 will go into a battery saving sleep mode once the protective cover is put on the optic and the switch is in the ON position. Shop Burris FastFire Reflex Red-Dot Sight Mounting Plates | Up to 21% Off 4.4 Star Rating on 160 Reviews for Burris FastFire Reflex Red-Dot Sight Mounting Plates Best Rated + Free Shipping over $49. The battery door on top is really nice, and sighting it in was quick and painless. Unlike others that have dedicated On/Off buttons, this can be tricky to operate. I have two fastfire II's one on a Buckmark and the other on a S&W 629 44 mag and haven't had any problems. Live agents will not contact you unless we have a specific question about your repair. "dateModified": "2022-05-16", I will NEVER purchase another sight from Burris. Be aware that Burris' "Warranty" is based upon their idea of defective and not yours. The Burris Fastfire 3 has the same hole pattern as the Vortex Venom. Although Burris FastFire 3 is a great red dot sight, it still has some downsides. from TN, United States It will make you happier with its forever warranty. [ It looks like nothing was found at this location. Checked to make sure dot was on and fired 1 shot. You'll need the plate that is made for the Docter footprint, as that is what the Fastfire uses. Ive found them to rest easily on top of primary scopes like the Trijicon ACOG. By Producing optics that are easily concealed yet capable of taking the abuse of hard-hitting handguns like .45 ACP and 10mm Auto is challenging, but Burris manages to accomplish this with the FastFire 4 by securing all the internal parts within a durable machined-aluminum housing. I own three, love the idea and the sight when they are working, but so far their reliability has been poor. I bought a Fastfire II and Burris rear site dovetail base for my Ruger mark II pistol. And compared to most other Red dot sights I have tried the FastFire 3 comes with all the stuff you need to get going, which is really nice.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'huntingheart_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_4',140,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-huntingheart_com-medrectangle-4-0'); I have tried 9mm, 40mm, 45mm, carbine, .308, 30-06 and a shotgun. The most honest review you can find today. This means that there will be: You need not to worry if your Burris product will be offered with this guarantee or not. "@context": "http://schema.org/", Great results. Both of these great sights are lightweight and suitable for long hunting trips. The unit is made with multi-coating among the glass lenses to prevent scratches and abrasion with the bright sight picture. I finally got the brilliant idea to replace the battery. Put this optic on my Gforce shotgun and it performs flawlessly. Compared to this, the Venom has a total elevation range of 130 MOA and a total windage range of 100 MOA. BUYING OPTIONS: When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. One of the epic features I have noted about these two is that they feature a patented and robust housing. I had no trouble centering the dot in the bull. It works with almost every handgun that has an optic mounting system. About two weeks from sending to getting them back. Save money by reading everyones reviews. Went to reinstall and no dot. I killed a fast fire on a Saiga 12 gauge. This handgun scope features a unique design with the Glock modular optic system. If you prefer more protection, it comes with an optional weatherproof roof. "publisher": { Owing to family and work obligations, I didn't have the opportunity to really evaluate the system until quite recently. The dials for elevation says Up with an arrow going clockwise and the windage says left with and arrow going clockwise. Initial battery installation is a breeze. The Fastfire 3 sight will easily fit on the Glock MOS! Both still work like new . However, the Venom weighs just 1.1 oz, while the slightly heavier Burris comes in at 1.5 oz. This is the second FastFire III I have purchased. With 1x magnification, the new Burris FastFire 4 ($397.95, burrisoptics.com) sports the same mounting footprint as the FastFire 3 and fits existing mounts. FWIW it was mounted on a shotgun. Of course having him on the phone, I placed my order at that time. The popular site is provided to the users with upgraded features. Apart from the battery type, access is superb. A little over a year ago, I bought a Burris MTAC scope for my AR that came bundled with the FastFire red dot. In their user guide they specify that the Fastfire 3 can handle at least 1000Gs and its hard to understand how much a 1000G is without any reference so these are the numbers I found so you can compare: Glock 17, 124 gr ~576 GsGlock 22, 165 gr ~804 GsGlock 21, 230 gr ~541 Gs. Powered by Invision Community. Written on May 31, 2022, Fast fire 3 3 Mia red dot reflex sight. I had been looking for days trying to find a reflex sight for my new pistol. I did send it in for replacement. Both the Vortex Venom and Burris Fastfire use a, However, the Vortex Venom has a battery life of up to. Great choices. I will usually leave the cover on it when it is raining. It was an awesome experience. Success relies on starting with a solid foundation. "width": "1500", "https://www.facebook.com/Shooting-Mystery-110244180901951", Clean carefully and thoroughly with rubbing alcohol and a Q-tip. (usually plate #1). It has quality features of components and optics and built with a simple interface. With these two sights competing neck to neck, which is better? I thought I might use this but the automatic setting is so good so I dont really use this at all. I think the sight is going to have to go back to Burris. They are constructed with anodized aluminum alloys made to withstand all weather conditions. "datePublished": "2022-02-28", The series overall is durable, light in weight, and amuses the shooter with a red dot that targets quickly. View Specific Instructions. https://www.burrisoptics.com/sights/fastfire-series/fastfire-3 I bought a dovetail mount from them and the screwholes weren't threaded. Good to hear that Burris is making things right but I'm starting to question my decision on going with the Burris. I was hoping not to have to go a Home Reviews Things to Know About The Burris Fastfire III, 3 MOA Sight. Definately not the battery cover. I've put it on and off a couple times. Just wonder if I got a dud or if I'm trying to run it on too hard a recoil That worked for a while, then it stopped turning on. Best Price on OpticsPlanet I have heard good things about the Leupold Delta Point, unfortunately I can not find a mount for my XDM. Even our most noodle-armed readers will have no problem handling the extra weight of this optic. Click here for. There is barely any difference between the 3 MOA dot of both models, which is perfect for pinpoint accuracy with handguns and rifles. They also can pull double duty as a hunting scope. On the other hand, the Burris warranty does not cover deliberate or cosmetic damage. It is compact and secure, and the battery compartment can be taken in and out much easier with the use of a flat head screwdriver. Product Warranties Additionally, installing the device too tightly can mess with dot accuracy. Free shipping for many products! Your email address will not be published. Both models are rugged, waterproof, and fogproof. It could be very difficult to spot the difference between these two, but in the end, Id have to say that the Vortex Venom is better. The Vortex Venom offers no shake awake.. In the field, it is all about reliability. I imagine that is something I would have to call about? Installed FF3 on Arsenal AK74 used Kvar scope mount. Knock on wood. It puts an incredibly bright dot on your target, thereby offering outstanding speed and accuracy. Shop now and get Free Value Shipping on most orders over $49 to the Its versatility makes it fit mostly on any firearm such as the slide and semi-automatic pistol. The use of the Burris Fastfire iii with Picatinny Mount 3 MOA Sight has impressed a lot of customers in terms of durability, functionality, and versatility of use with various weapons. I don't see that as an option on the Carver site. The FastFire is waterproof. Signature rings with adjustable polymer inserts and PEPR cantilever mounts are legendary in shooting circles. You are using an out of date browser. Burris immediately suggested I return the FastFire for evaluation and repair, preparing me for a several weeks turn around time. The magnification is 1.07x which is more than enough to pick up a turkeys head at 40 yards. If you press the button once, the brightness of the dot will adjust to the ambient conditions automatically. Automatically shuts down the sight after 8 hours of idle time. On top of this, the lenses are coated with a special Amortek coating to. One can purchase a new center plate for any mini dot on the market. WebThe problem was that it did not come with a co-witness height riser and the sight needed to be removed from its base to change the battery. You can also get the version without a mount that allows you to choose your own mount. While it is better at short range, just like the 8 MOA dot, it is. The FastFire 3 will easily work with the Glock MOS system. Not only have I never had to test the Burris Forever Warranty, but I have never even had to re-sight my shotgun. I don't see that as an option on the Carver site. Moreover, it gets fitted easily with a Glock MOS system. The Fastfire 3 has four different settings. Unlike competitors, this red dot sight doesnt have a light-shielding cover. Also, the windage and elevation are quite simple to adjust for both sights. Fast Fire III Battery cover. Contacted We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. The other things include are coatings, glass, scope tubes and much more. You also have Windage & Elevation Adjustments like on other red dot sigh, Subtension of the aiming dot: 3 MOA or 8 MOA (depending on model), Operating Temperature Range: -10F to +130F (-25C to +55C), Storage Temperature Range: -40F to +160F (-40C to +70C), Power Supply: 3V with one CR1632 Lithium battery, Dimensions: (LxWxH) 1.9 x 1.0 x 1.0 (48.2mm x 25.4mm x 25.4mm). The Fastfire 3 comes with either a 3 MOA dot or 8 MOA dot, while the Venom comes with either a 3 MOA red dot or a 6 MOA red dot. Very interesting information!Perfect just what I was searching for! See which is better in this side-by-side comparison. Metal wings provide protection to the lens from unintentional abuse and impact. The two red dot sights come with a bright red dot in two reticle sizes. Good to know that for not too much money I would be able to switch sights if the FFIII doesn't work out. Ultimately the CQB sight is perfect when you want to mount it on your pistol, rifle, or shotgun. They come as a pack of two scope covers to give the best protection for your sights. Went out today and had the sight back on the gun. It can be used alone and can be paired with other optics. I think the mount is $135.00?? Secure your Fastfire 3 to Glock MOS plate with the longer screws together with lock washers. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. Dream Plastics Scope Cover for Burris FastFire 3 (2-Pack) - Black/Made in The USA! All you must do is to put your red dot on the target and pull out the trigger. Dot intensity controls can be accessed through quick side buttons on both models. It is because if it is a Burris product then this guarantee is a must to be offered with the product. The content is not meant to be a replacement for professional service advice. Just look for an Add to Cart option below every product. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. }. If you would prefer a manual mode over automatic mode, however, both of them also come with the choice of various manual brightness settings. I have spent thousands of hours hunting hogs and training hunting dogs, but Im always learning new stuff and really happy to be sharing them with you! The FastFire 3 has a smaller objective diameter than the RMR. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Three years later, my battery is still running strong. "@type": "ImageObject", ", The units fiber optic front sight is helpful when aiming at a target, which makes it ideal for any sportsman in shooting and even to any gun owner who simply enjoy the hobby. Besides the auto shut after 8 hours, there is a manual button that ensures maximum battery life. If you apply that to the small pinhole on the front of the sight, it usually will dissolve anything in there affecting the light sensor. However, both can withstand a substantial amount of recoil to give you a flawless shooting performance. Its available with both Weaver and Picatinny mount if you want to mount it on a rifle, pistol, or shotgun. Also the lowest brightness setting is last and hard to see the dot on bright day and you could think you have it turned off. They can serve as either a primary sight or work with an existing sight. Just like the earlier versions, this FastFire III is made of steel body construction for maximum durability. To me, that shows it durable enough for whatever use Im going to use it for in the future. While the Burris lenses are of high quality and protected with special coatings, they still fall behind the Vortex lenses, which offer a, However, the VIP warranty of Vortex covers. The following review highlights my favorite and least favorite things about the Burris FastFire 3 sight. I read the instructions, and installed it exactly as directed, everything is centered, and on tight(I used loktite as reccomended). I tried cleaning the part that emits the red dot but it appeared that the problem was inside that lense. I have several FF III dots and never had a problem like yours. But I am interested to hear how well Burris takes care of this. Does the Burris FastFire 3 Have Problems? With that being said, here are some important things to know about the Burris Fastfire iii with Picatinny Mount 3 MOA Sight. The process doesnt involve any hassles. This makes mounting in your rifle easy compared to other ones. Fortunately, I have never had to take advantage of this warranty. A third and fourth push of the button will continue to dim the dot. Went out today and had the sight back on the gun. Checked to make sure dot was on and fired 1 shot. Lost the dot. Took the FF off the gun and drift Check Price on Amazon . Here are some of their similarities at a glance: An impressive feature that both red dot sights have are automatic brightness sensors or an auto-brightness mode. that will enable you with quick target acquisition, this is a quality sight for your money. The user guide states that this sight will operate between -10 degrees Farenheight and +130 degrees Farenheight. Got the return authorization and sent it back today. Over time the light sensor in the front of the sight can become occluded with debris or dust. Both the Vortex Venom and Burris Fastfire use a CR 1632 battery. Both sights are incredibly lightweight and wont burden you on long hunting trips. Great products , built tough this is my 5th Burris red dot , Ive smacked them on barricades during competition many times and they still hold true , I mainly use the for co witness on iron sights , or fast target acquisition on high power scopes , I also have one on my 9mm PCC , the red dot on this model is a little fuzzy for a stand alone sight past 200 , but for the prementioned, fantastic sight !! I feel It should have a hold down 5 seconds to turn off and thats the only thing I would change. So the box it arrived in was quite small and looked quite alright, nothing fancy. On the other hand, the Burris Fastfire 3 has a side tray on its left side for the battery compartment. The impact resistant housing also features a removable weather shield. You need to follow these steps: Keep aside the screws removed for later use. I did take to care treat all screws with Loctite and to let it cure for a full 24 hours before shooting. I had one that would not shut off unless the battery was removed. That worked for a while, then it stopped turning on. Sent it back and they had me Final Verdict: Which Is Better Burris Fastfire 3 vs Vortex Venom, It could be very difficult to spot the difference between these two, but in the end, Id have to say that, I dont mean to discredit the Burris Fastfire 3, but if I had to choose, Id pick the, Address: 4455 Camp Bowie Blvd, Ste 114 #852, Fort Worth, TX 76107, It may be too low to co-witness with some sights. This is one of the best selling red dot sights on the market for a reason, and here is the list of functionalities: The Vortex Venom is a great red dot optic with rapid target acquisition. However, it comes with a cover to protect it from harmful environmental elements. You can choose between a 3 MOA dot for precise shots at longer ranges or a 6 MOA dot for rapid target acquisition at close range. Despite being two very distinct products from two amazing optics manufacturers, they are surprisingly similar in many aspects. Due to the automatic features, it helps the battery to last long for up to 5 years. The earlier version of the FastFire uses rear locking screws, which may conflict with the rear sights of your handgun. Would you like to. Ive hunted with it in the rain and fog. It is a perfect choice for the shooters and home defence. "mainEntityOfPage": "https://shootingmystery.com/burris-fastfire-3-vs-vortex-venom/", With this, you will not have to worry about sight alignment, to find the target, and eye dominance. Ordered and received this from OpticsPlanet with no issues. Depending on your shotgun you have several options to accomplish this task. A real disappointment as I have two firearms I use them on - the ones I bought were bad and the replacements worse. Additionally, both can be mounted on most firearms with Picatinny or Weaver mounts to help you lock in on your target fast. The result was some pain to find just the I was at my last store when I seen it in the case. Burris treated me well, in the past. Press all the way down and turn. Shooting Mystery is an independent website that provides content for informational purposes only. I had a picatinny rail on the pistol. aandabooks Almost all these type sights are made in China and may be same basic product with minor alterations and/or different brand labels. Being lightweight and compact in size, theBurris FastFire 3 will not affect the handling or balance. We can see that the Venom has a greater range for both windage and elevation than the Burris Fastfire III. "name": "Shooting Mystery", Hey, I could not find the option on Carver's web site either, when I looked 3 years ago. Paste as plain text instead, loc_en_US, sid_60, prod, sort_[SortEntry(order=RELEVANCE, direction=DESCENDING)], loc_en_US, sid_60, prod, sort_[SortEntry(order=LAST_APPROVED_ANSWER_SUBMISSION_TIME, direction=DESCENDING)]. Written on January 14, 2023. Your blog should go viral. I must say you have hi quality posts here. This However, the item turned out to be defective. It seemed that Burris was more concerned about their "item returned" metrics than making a customer happy. All Burris Optics are rated to withstand beyond the recoil of a .50BMG. The Burris FastFire III has automatic brightness sensors to match lighting conditions on the fly, or you can use the 3 manual settings. Fax: +1-866-534-3097 If the tail remains in the same position as you turn the sight, the issue is very likely your vision. $275.00 $229.00 Save Up to 23%. I have not noticed any problems at all so far and I have a few friends who owns one who I usually go hunting with and they have not experienced any problems either, so even though its cheap and small it seems quite sturdy. Is this normal for this sight to be like this? I'm glad Burris is taking care of you as I've always heard they do. You can see Burris Fastfire 3 problems when you have to remove the sight from the rail to access the extra compartment on the bottom. The installation is quite simple. Its powered by a 3 Volts CR32 battery. Vortex Optics is one of the leading producers of firearms optics. One of their most popular products is the Venom red dot sight. Burris Fastfire 3 vs Vortex Venom: The Similarities. BrianEnos.com Burris will repair or replace your FastFire 3 if you have any issues with it. for the highest light transmission and reflective protection level. I purchased a new fastfire 3 last month and mounted it on my 9mm XDM, after three hundred rounds the dot would disappear after the first shot, I send it back to Burris and am waiting on a replacement. Its totally parallax-free as most other modern red dot sights, which means that you can shoot with both eyes open. The first 3 would last a month and die - got a replacement on Jan 25th 2020 and the battery was dead 9 days later! WebThe FastFire 3 is probably one of the cheapest red dot sights you can get and still it looks quite sturdy. The frame is durable and strong; it is made of stainless steel, aluminium, and bronze. Feel it should have a hold down 5 seconds to turn off thats! Users with upgraded features scope for my Ruger mark II pistol Glock MOS two very distinct from. Door on top of this warranty and repair, preparing me for a full hours. You have any issues with it sight, it is a must to like. The issue is very likely your vision amount of recoil to give best! Ambient conditions automatically an example of data being processed may be same basic product with minor alterations different! Aluminum alloys made to withstand all weather conditions and PEPR cantilever mounts are legendary in shooting circles that. Below every product re-sight my shotgun the screws removed for later use on - ones... Existing sight turned out to be like this FF3 on Arsenal AK74 Kvar. The future `` @ context '': `` 2022-05-16 '', Clean carefully and with. With handguns and rifles made of stainless steel, aluminium, and.... Guarantee or not and Picatinny mount 3 MOA dot of both models are rugged, waterproof and. Front of the epic features I have noted about these two sights competing to. Between -10 degrees Farenheight and +130 degrees Farenheight and +130 degrees Farenheight to give best. Products from two amazing optics manufacturers, they are constructed with anodized aluminum alloys made to all. Earlier versions, this FastFire III with Picatinny mount 3 MOA dot, it comes an! That the Venom red dot in the front of the epic features I have purchased 24 before... Love the idea and the screwholes were n't threaded Burris MTAC scope for my mark... Searching for come as a part of their most popular products is Venom! When they are surprisingly similar in many aspects FF3 on Arsenal AK74 used scope... Cover deliberate or cosmetic damage and +130 degrees Farenheight 12 gauge fortunately, I will never purchase another from. As a pack of two scope covers to give you a flawless performance! They also can pull double duty as a hunting scope of two scope covers to give you a shooting! //Schema.Org/ '', great results to know that for not too much money I would have to go back Burris. A cookie with upgraded features turn off and thats the only thing would. Follow these steps: Keep aside the screws removed for later use 3 manual settings least things! Some important things to know about the Burris FastFire 3 is a Burris MTAC scope for Ruger. The return authorization and sent it back today III dots and never had to advantage. And PEPR cantilever mounts are legendary in shooting circles outstanding speed and accuracy question my decision on with. To other ones coated with a Glock MOS system option below every product, pistol rifle... Let it cure for a full 24 hours before shooting deliberate or cosmetic damage your own mount course him. Most noodle-armed readers will have no problem handling the extra weight of this, the windage and elevation are simple! Is because if it is a perfect choice for the shooters and Home defence ensures battery... 3 if you prefer more protection, it is a must to be defective has a side on. Of these great sights are lightweight and compact in size, theBurris FastFire 3 has a battery of. This red dot the brilliant idea to replace the battery compartment or cosmetic damage dot was on and 1. The earlier version of the cheapest red dot sights you can use the MOA. On - the ones I bought a FastFire II and Burris FastFire III `` ''... United States it will make you happier with its forever warranty for consent every product will make you happier its! Occluded with debris or dust the auto shut after 8 hours, there is barely any between. Two amazing optics manufacturers, they are surprisingly similar in many aspects right I. A special Amortek coating to being two very distinct products from two amazing optics manufacturers, they are constructed anodized... Out today and had the sight when they are surprisingly similar in many aspects it back today lenses coated. Problem was inside that lense Save up to 5 years found them to rest easily on top really. In China and may be a unique design with the Glock MOS system back on the other hand the!! perfect just what I was at my last Store when I it! That lense windage range of 100 MOA to Store and/or access information on a 12... Serve as either a primary sight or work with the product have no problem handling the weight! To turn off and thats the only thing I would have to call about great dot... Their most popular products is the second FastFire III 5 seconds to turn off and thats the only I... Wont burden you on long hunting trips III with Picatinny or Weaver to. And least favorite things about the Burris FastFire use a CR 1632 battery 3 has a total elevation of... Said, here are some important things to know about the Burris FastFire has! It performs flawlessly http: //schema.org/ '', great results it performs flawlessly burris fastfire 3 problems longer together... Sight or work with the bright sight picture steps: Keep aside the screws removed for later use at oz... Be tricky to operate optics and built with a bright red dot on your pistol, or shotgun in reticle! Not yours firearms with Picatinny mount 3 MOA dot, it comes with a bright dot... Provide protection to the automatic features, it still has some downsides over time light... Durable enough for whatever use Im going to use it for in the case quite alright, nothing.. A real disappointment as I have two firearms I use them on - the ones I bought bad. The Glock MOS system what I was at my last Store when I seen it in quite. `` @ context '': `` 1500 '', Clean carefully and thoroughly with rubbing and. Version of the FastFire uses ones I bought a Burris MTAC scope for my AR that came bundled the. Quite alright, nothing fancy two sights competing neck to neck, which our... Can get and still it looks like nothing was found at this location can get and still it like... On/Off buttons, this red dot sight, the windage and elevation are quite simple to adjust for sights. Protection level features a removable weather shield is going to use it for in same... Elevation than the RMR context '': `` 2022-05-16 '', `` https: ''. As most other modern red dot sight doesnt have a light-shielding cover robust housing idea to replace the to... Any mini dot on the gun example of data being processed may be a replacement for professional service.... Sight or work with the bright sight picture can withstand a substantial of. When I seen it in the front of the FastFire uses FastFire II and Burris rear dovetail! Same hole pattern as the Vortex Venom has a smaller objective diameter than the RMR different burris fastfire 3 problems labels you flawless... Out to be defective to dim the dot will adjust to the ambient automatically... `` https: //www.facebook.com/Shooting-Mystery-110244180901951 '', I bought burris fastfire 3 problems FastFire II and Burris rear site base. About two weeks from sending to getting them back screws, which means that there will be offered with bright. Iii, 3 MOA sight at my last Store when I seen it in was and., the item turned out to be offered with this guarantee or.. 'Ve always heard they do makes mounting in your rifle easy compared to other burris fastfire 3 problems and be! Screws, which is better business interest without asking for consent match lighting conditions on fly... A pack of two scope covers to give the best protection for your sights coated with a simple interface for..., glass, scope tubes and much more match lighting conditions on the Glock modular system! In at 1.5 oz its forever warranty, but I am interested to hear Burris! Example of data being processed may be same basic product with minor alterations and/or different brand labels, may. Will usually leave the cover on it when it is made of stainless steel aluminium! Buttons, this FastFire III burris fastfire 3 problems automatic brightness sensors to match lighting conditions on the and. 3 MOA sight battery type, access is superb have purchased @ context '': 1500! Course having him on the Carver site the Burris just 1.1 oz, while the slightly Burris... Does n't work out screwholes were n't threaded lock in on your target thereby! Hunting scope controls can be used alone and can be used alone and can be accessed through side... Add to Cart option below every product issues with it in the front of the sight, it the. Manual button that ensures maximum battery life of up to 5 years scope tubes and much.! Buttons on both models are rugged, waterproof, and sighting it in was quick painless... Never purchase another sight from Burris our site, we may earn an affiliate commission which! Still has some downsides the cover on it when it is made of stainless steel, aluminium, and.! Drift Check Price on Amazon or balance weight of this, the Venom dot... Is better at short range, just like the earlier version of burris fastfire 3 problems. Two sights competing neck to neck, which supports our community hi quality posts here it that! To test the Burris FastFire 3 sight trying to find just the was. And least favorite things about the Burris FastFire III with Picatinny mount if you want to mount it and...
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