Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. I was one of the cold ones! Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. Todd Wagner, senior pastor of Watermark Community Churcha multi-site megachurch in the Dallas area with an average attendance of 11,000announced yesterday that. These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. christian leaders who are not straightforward and forthright cannot be healthy. Of course, God has a very different definition of success than we do. We didnt share our financial information until almost a year into our meeting. Before coming to Watermark, I never knew the Bible could be applied to my life. Amy Smith of the blog Watchkeep has documented her experience there, and it bears much of the hallmarks of a cult. I suppose you think you can do better than they? Its ridiculous to give issue for a house he lives in, that he himself didnt purchase. I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a complete and total lie. yes, that is a valid question. Sounds like the perfect target for attack, I was looking at Watermarks governance section on its website and two things stuck out to me: 1) they have 2 doctrinal statements, one for members and one for elders and 2) they are Elder-Rule, Elder-Led. Fellowship Church. How? I did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, but I will get to it as soon as I can. No its not. Jesus is is merely a mascot and a marketing word. They did create it. If you were not From Highland Park or University Park Todd Had no use for you. There is a filthy rich entrepreneur whose name is Todd Wagner. Under the veil of confession, it was all about him. You CANNOT, however, attempt to withdraw membership to avoid church discipline. WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. It also lists Fellowship Church and Village Church in its top 10 on cults (Village likely is, Fellowship is more of a personality cult centered around Ed), strangely Gateway Church isnt listed (and several people think it may be more of a personality cult than Watermark or Village). so much pretense. If we believe that, we should also have a desire to please God, and want the way we live our lives to reflect that desire. I worked at a mega church where homes were gifted to the church, then sold and the $$ put back into the church account. Our mission is to make disciples who are marked by the presence of God in order to leave a lasting mark. I went to a church with a broadly evangelical membership statement coupled with a specifically Calvinistic, and specifically young earth creationist, teaching statement. Considering thatRead more , Dave It is disingenuous to minimize someone elses experience just because you did not witness it yourself. A former member of Shekinah Church, who lost a lawsuit against Shinn in which she alleged he swindled her out of $4 million, has issued a dire warning for those who have been lured into the. Elder Mickey Friedrich then urged the church not to try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong. One person complained that her husband was forced to tell his community group how much he made and to account for how he spent his money. The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. . This is absolutely nothing like a Joel Osteen situation. utterly un-credible. . Does anyone find this highly hypocritical? If you dont fill out the form you can leave easy if your just quiet. . . Thanks for giving up the last word. Not to mention that even if the words are perfect its up to the listeners as to how they interpret it. The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. i dont believe a word he says. Arguing that the bishops are not enforcing the denomination's doctrines, the churches seek to leave The United Methodist Church with property and transfer to a breakaway denomination. Kind of smarmy too., You use some strong name calling, words Or you perfect? As you should be. Is this standard really higher or is it just more specific? they portrayed it as Todd having the support of the elders and full steam ahead. Love you Todd They are full-blown corporate performance reviews, except about twice as long as any Ive filled out. That is only for the married folk. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there = works. The twin resignations come after months of turmoil at the church. Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). Thank you for praying for me when I was a cigarette smoker snd 23 yrs of smoking addiction was lifted within a year or so afte that. or. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. Kind of smarmy too. Demands full disclosure of finances in church groups, but having a hard time finding his. Having said that,Read more . MacArthur's Grace Community Church of Sun Valley had been involved in months of legal battles with state and local officials . Products. Thats for God to reveal or conceal.. Does God want everyone to be broke? I was a member for nearly 14 years, sure bunch of us saw some challenges (as some churches may face) not doubt. Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home.. Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. One of our trusted partners, Elam Ministries, is currently working with its local churches in Turkey to help provide food, blankets, tents, and other basic supplies. As directed by Scripture, Watermark makes a distinction between regularly attending and being a formal member of our church. The man and woman had been accused by the man's wife and by the church of being romantically involved. Worth 1-2 million. Hi. You can expect to see revenant messages told in an engaging way, and contemporary worship. For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God., Wagner also warned the congregation with words from the passage, stating that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and from your own selves men will (rise up), speaking perverse things. Then, modifying Pauls description of his three years spent in Ephesus to Wagners 22 years at Watermark, Wagner added, Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of 22 years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears., The congregation at Watermark responded to Wagner with a standing ovation. Its a huge red flag to me about Todds character and understanding of God. Its not a cult. File photo of fans at a Dallas Stars . **THEIR shepherds** Once you see it, you cant unsee it. Awaken Conference 2021. Its where two or more are gathered not where two or more thousands are gathered. OK. Positional authority deals with executing responsibilities within an organization, like a general in an army, the president of bank, or the pastor of a church. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. And in Ecclesiastes 12:14, For God will bring every deedRead more , I would be curious to know if you are ok with disclosing all of your financial information to your community group and seeking their approval on life decisions? Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. I dont know if I am over-reacting when Todd made a off the cuff remark about taking his wife some where last week where she could be warm. And then they agree to work on the same board? Wagner is a bully. Im sorry to hear of judgement that has been passed around. (note spelling a/e) I have met small groups all over the Dallas area of cast aside individuals who bonded over the abuse they experienced while attending this organization. Sort of as God told him and his wife that it was time to move on to the next thing God has planned. Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus. Ive never heard of nor attended a church with such a position. a lavish lifestyle is contrary to everything Jesus stood for if Jesus still matters, and if anyone actually remembers. You may have the last word if you wish. I dont doubt some unconcionable things happened. Unless you were present for every worship service, bible study & community group meeting (including the all-female group that Susan was a member of), you cannot say that what she heard, wasnt said and that what she was asked to do, wasnt asked of her. Not to gotcha, but I just want to set the record straight that the gift tax doesnt make it unrealistic that Todds family was gifted that house. seems to me median, or less, is reasonable (relative to the community where the church exists). From my own experience, the leadership problems I have seen in churches have more to do with the character of the people in power rather than the type of governance. Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. And this is important. If you got the impression I was disingenuous or was minimizing someones hurt please forgive me. He can be only the center ofRead more . Also, please note, you are free to leave Watermark Church at any time. I know him on a first name basis, as I do some of those elders on the stage. This is a quality and important post. In September 2020, Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues. Watermark exists to be and make more fully devoted followers of Christ, looking to God's Word as our only authority, conscience and guide. Best wishes to the church members, though. By our measure our savior Jesus was a total and complete failure. Unsure why he is getting criticized for living in a house that is experiencing uber appreciation b/c of the school district it resides in. In response to a tweet by a critic questioning Wagners seeming humility when he announced he was taking a leave of absence in September, Wagner tweeted: Mission accomplished. Wagner later deleted that tweet. He confirmed Leventhals statement that the two are at peace and are in community together.. Youve been a member at Watermark for ~6 years, and how many times have you talked to each elder? Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. One of the core values of the community groups is Live Authentically, which they define as being completely honest with one anotherthis means giving others permission to know the real you by sharing authentically. This includes sharing your sins, struggles, along with your entire life story, potentially to a room full of complete strangers. I believe this man would help many, I can say that without shadow of doubt. Our online editing platform simplifies the process for any action you may want to do with Church Membership. Grace Community Church's lawsuit "seeks to prohibit California from enforcing its unconstitutional and onerous coronavirus pandemic regulations." Link copied Aug. 14, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC Women have gotten to the point where they thing their poop doesnt stink lately. According to the membership covenant, a member is not free to leave the church, but must formally withdraw membership under one of three acceptable circumstances: 1. There are also a lot of factors that go into measuring ones wealth, not just the dollar value of ones house; and there are a lot of things that go into measuring ones character, other than how much money one has or the kind of house one lives in. I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. There is another Todd Wagner in Dallas he is an entrapenuer Its not Wagner the pastor. Photo taken March 7, 2014. Theyre all using so much jargon that its hard to figure out what any of it actually means. If the things she claims were stated from the pulpit are true, there should be plenty of documentation. I have nothing to hide, and sharingRead more , As an ex-Watermark member (8 years), and former CG leader (6 years), I can say unequivocally that I had no problem sharing my financial information with my guys. Incorrect. Just because you have not experienced or witnessed the things that happened to the person who told their story that I featured in this post, does not mean those things did not happen. It is mentioned in this article. like hes a programmed automaton. This way, when a person is ready to become a member, they know exactly what they are signing up for. Todd Wagner was preaching. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. I was so disappointed reading all the comments, especially when considering the targeted audience for this site. it simply looks very bad. Christian Church. Sure, lets not address anything that is rumored to be strange about Watermark and say that Jesus sounded cultish. These overly dramatic talks tend to make me feel like Im not spiritual enough or theyre covering up something. Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. The womans story you shared sounded like her personal interpretation of events that has no factual evidence to back it up.. We areRead more . It is not as simple as walking away. But why? It would be hard to set a dollar amount on what is reasonable and what is lavish. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. What do you mean exactly by re-victimization. .. .amazing. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. For much of Wagners speech in the video, Leventhal did not look at Wagner, but stared straight ahead. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. What a strange and often sad world much of American white evangelicalism has become. yes, things do not add up. THAT is what these people are afraid of. Why do you throw a stone (more likely without looking at yourselves first). As for the doctrinal statement issue, I see what you are saying. First and foremost- this is a season that God is shaking things up. Im saying that outta love and also saying it truly saddens me to see many of you have hardened your hearts. Just the congregationhmmmmmm.. As soon as I saw the pastor lived in a 15 million dollar house, that was it for me. Stonebriar Community Church. Re|Engage at other churches may be worthwhile. Thats the other dallas todd wagner who is mark cubans partner. It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. We've put together a list of some ways . Thats a new one on me. I expect to see Todd again, doing the same things in the future hell probably run another church the same way he intended to run Watermark. what is lavish? and oversee the spiritual interests of our church body. Todd could use he had no use for you. XPastor recommends readers take special note of the resources provided by Watermark about the issue of Care and Correction. John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander.7 Maybe Im straining at a gnat. A calendar of future events, classes, Bible studies, and programs happening with Watermark Community Church. that is perceived as insincere or excessive: Religious double talk. -. Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. Todd gave me support and comfort during a rough time in my life, and I will be FOREVER grateful. Im Jesus name. Several weeks after Leventhals resignation, Wagner separately decided to step down as senior pastor and elder, the churchs statement said. Perhaps its appropriate for an elder who retired after many years of exemplary service and is available on occasion to give counsel. I have first hand experience with a senior pastor doing exactly this and teaching younger families how to properly budget and cost of having kids. I am praying for you in San Diego CA. Yet it turns out they are getting people toRead more , Hi to all, Ive been a member of Watermark for over three years, went through Re:Generation and now co-lead a community group. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. No One Knows. search clear. So unless this person gave away 7 more $1.5 million homes, they would not be taxed on any of those gifts ever. If you arent a covenant member at Watermark Church, you cant join a community group, and that is where all the getting involved starts. How do you know Todd pays that? Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? Todd portrays it all as a divine God told me sort of thing. We did one a week, so this stretch over several weeks. that is, if we keep Jesus Christ as part of the equation, with an understanding that more is incumbent on leaders than on others. There are many issues at Watermark. Watermark might want the groups to be run a certain way, but that doesnt mean the group has to follow the rules. Thats the problem often times one comes on a hot seat and forgets one day would come that same thing that man have to face. R.w. A Texas appeals court will decide whether the Watermark Community Church went too far in its attempt to save a church member's marriage. Theres a lot of talk and a lot of Christianese language, but its still impossible to say exactly what happened or exactly what is and was going on. Having community is not the issue its how Watermark DEFINES community. Not Todds decision but good try on the poor stewardship bit. Just checking out the church and looking at the background info the house has tripled in value since the Wagners bought it 20 years ago hardly a 7 figure home when purchased. Help me to understand. Yes WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. Regardless I loved your passion and pray that Holy Spirit would cover you and lead you in the area that needs correction. Not now. Both of these practices are, in my opinion, unhealthy. Todd raised 6 kids there and has never take a big salary. Get new articles and breaking news delivered to your inbox. Humility, self-awareness of our own sins, repentance, forgiveness and grace for others, these should not be forgotten. The state of California and Los Angeles have agreed to pay $800,000 in legal fees to settle their lawsuit with John MacArthur's church over COVID-19 lockdown rules. And thanks for the word smarmy. Thats why people leave churches snd are constantly hurt. I verified it. The Porch. Watermark, a fast-growing nondenominational church in northeast Dallas, says the case involves accusations of adultery, a wife who wanted to save her marriage, a husband who sat on a board of a national Christian organization, and another woman who works for another church. So I canceled my move. Remember the verse when most friends depart, there is one who stays closer then the brother. The first being last and the last being first is not how most Christians think. You guys can rip apart our church and Todd all you want, but I know him, and you wont find a man with more of a heart of gold than him. however, since evangelical leaders have redefined gossip to mean dont rock the boat to protect their power, careers, and revenue, can you explain what you mean by gossip? A church membership contract errr. Then check your heart. If you are going to judge Watermark, its leaders and programs, then I would encourage you to do so in the context of Scripture, especially the New Testament, including the gospels and the epistles that talk about church order, and yes, even discipline. If by community you mean meeting with like-minded individuals to foster friendships & develop relationships then great. I didnt feel the spirit when I heard him. On 05/28/2008 THE STATE OF TEXAS filed a Property - Eminent Domain lawsuit against WATERMARK COMMUNITY CHURCH. Its all sunshine and roses till you see it firsthand. I was blessed to attend Kanakuk for years and years. I dont know what the tax rate is near Watermark but I doubt I could afford just the taxes & insurance on that house. Susan felt it was ironic that I had made a comparison between Scientology and Watermark Church, because she said those same comparisons helped her realize that she was not in a healthy church. Visit us at 9:30 or 11:00 am CST on Sunday . Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. The over-humility seems fake, like false humility. Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. Todd was put on sabbatical to reflect about his proud attitude. Remember how CJ wrote a book on humility and then some of the staff said he was anything but and instead was quite controlling. Wagner blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, hence your whitewash of content and material issues. TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. I bet some of you, dont attend or are part of the church, Jealousy amongst many of you I can smell from here. They refuse to be honest so they can make a come back in a year or two. Life Stage Care and Recovery Equipping Outreach Serve Community Groups. John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander. Poor Todd. Problem with the churches these days is many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny !! Author: this is unequivocally WRONG. This would be Cabo and in the middle of the worst weather tragedies that Dallas has seen in decades. Our mission is to Love God, Love People, and Serve the World. Usually blood in the water attracts sharks, but nothing that fierce here, just a bunch of blood sucking remoras. To become a member, there are certain things with which a person has to be in agreement, of course; but if a person becomes an elder, then what is expected is more clearly defined. Related Pages. Im confident Todd wagner has done more to help people than all commenters combined. This piece has been updated. The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. I covered this in my previous post, When Is a Church Member Fair Game, referencing a case of church discipline that Watermark carried out publicly against one of its members. He said at the time that he was not guilty of disqualifying sin like sexual immorality, financial misconduct, or foul languagesomething Wagner reiterated when he announced his resignation. So Leventhal resigned several weeks before Wagner, but theyre announcing this together, on the same day? Darren, I think I get where youre coming from with the idea of a teaching statement. It is Lord that gives and takes it away. I hope that you can come to a place of understanding and compassion for victims of churches who abuse their members. Seems there are some Watermark menbers Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! Documented her experience there, and triangulating side of WM will ever homeless., attempt to withdraw membership to avoid church discipline we did one a week, this! Controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM, classes, studies... Blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, Watermark makes a distinction watermark church lawsuit regularly attending and being a formal member of WM home. Might want the groups permission Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord,. 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