mountain lion vermont

I also had the vague notion that when it comes to cougars, people tend to sort themselves into one of three camps. Morse is a Vermont-based naturalist and the founder of Keeping Track, a nonprofit that trains people in the scientific protocols needed to detect, interpret, record, and monitor wildlife tracks and signs. They may get here, Doug Blodgett said to me one afternoon. Bennington, VT (05201) Today. Winds ESE at 10 to 20 mph. [Betty] and the other guys dont do this shit. If theyre in one, theyre in the other.. My assumption is it was the same animal. You wouldnt shake hands with a man like that, she said, and though she was smiling I could tell she was serious. People could have been looking at a catamount that was not, in fact, a wild animal. It kills to eat but does not necessarily practice any sort of conservation ethic. I saw one about 10 years ago, on our road. 3 talking about this. Some might mistake the bobcat, which still lives in New England, for a cougareven though its tail is about 6 inches long andthe bigger cats is 3 feet or more. Indeed, one of her steadiest sources of funding for Keeping Track is a presentation on cougars that has been known to draw more than 500 audience members. I could hear the steady rush of traffic on Route 315. I just heard from a fellow college student of a siting in Greenfield last fall and two in Colrain this spring. He was a dark butterscotch color, very tall and lanky (taller and thinner than a really big German Shepard) and that tail. I do this shit.. Perfect conditions, then, for thinking you saw something. I reported it to Connecticut DEEP, only to be told there are no cougars in Connecticut. Catamounts are large wild cats that are also called panthers, cougars or mountain lions. And thats a surprisingly complex question, because it hinges on numerous factors: policy and politics, culture and conditioning, habitat and, frankly, hubris. They especially come down from the mountains when there is a big water shortgage. It was his great coolness and daring (either that, or fear) that enabled Crowell to shoot the animal at a distance of one rod only (roughly 16 feet), first hitting it in the leg with his shotgun, then dispatching it with a bullet to the head from a borrowed rifle. Mountain lions are around 4 feet long with a two-and-a-half foot tail and can stand 24-30 inches tall at the shoulder. Probably are lions in western NC, too. By the late 20th century, the range of the catamount was confined to several western states and a small remnant population along the Gulf Coast that was eventually squeezed down into the Everglades/Big Cypress area of Florida and reduced to a couple of dozen animals of poor genetic quality due to inbreeding. A hard-to-spot mountain lion patiently waits for the right moment to attack an elk feeding in a gully at the Rio Mora National Wildlife Refuge in New Mexico in a photo posted by the refuge . "The catamount, which is also a mountain lion, a cougar, a panther and a ton of other words, is actually one of the most widely distributed mammals in the whole world. It can run 50 miles an hour and clear a twelve-foot fence. Running into a mountain lion can be a scary experience. Everglades Panther If those people who said they were seeing catamounts were wrong, and not just making it up, then what were they seeing? On the other side, there are those (as represented here by Bill Betty and Bo Ottmann, along with a number of others I spoke with) who say the overwhelming quantity of anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise. The expert opinion held up until a man was killed by a Great White not too far away. 104 Williston, VT 05495. The guide told him earlier in the summer he and a couple clients had watched a moutain lion come down to the bank of the Deerfield River just upstream and take a small deer, fawn, drag it into the woods and it kill it, they could hear the screams of the deer as the cougar finished the job. Its range was once similarly vast; from the high north regions of the Yukon to the Straits of Magellan. But perhaps an even larger portion is the product of his enduring faith in the men and womanloggers, hunters, trapperswhose vocations and avocations have instilled in them a deep familiarity with wild places and the creatures who inhabit them. There is a reason that millions of people were afraid to go in the water after they saw the movie Jaws. We strolled across the tavern parking lot and ducked into the forest, where Ottmann maintains a portion of his $15,000 worth of wildlife recording equipment (hes had no luck capturing a cougar on camera, though, despite more than a decade of trying). Several years ago, I was bicycling with a buddy up Quabbin Reservoirs Administration Rd. The last catamount in Vermont is finally, officially, certainly dead. They are there and thriving!!!! Nostalgia for the Wild Others have seen cougar in neighboring towns . At least once a year thered be a story from somewhere, but I only ran the absolute best, he told me. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. The key to Morses assertion can be found in the term breeding population. Although the fact that cougars have traveled through New England is irrefutable (a DNA-confirmed roadkill is hard to deny), Morse believes its unlikely that they have settled here and created a self-sustaining population. Chance of snow 90%. But other hard evidence of the big cats presence is elusive. They have a right to exist here and they contribute to healthier prey species. His Tail was very long almost touching the ground and as thick as velvet rope. Length of body. But I dont think it will happen any time soon.. I think of Aldo Leopolds Thinking Like a Mountain essay about how deer decimated the forests and died of starvation because of humans incessant desire to kill. Adult males may be more than 8 feet long (from the tip of the nose to the tip of the tail), and can weigh between 130 and 150 pounds. If these animals are not in the habitat, what we see is an overabundance of herbivores., The ecologist John Laundre, who has spent 35 years studying cougars, concurs. Green Mountain Lion Corp #256 34 Blair Park Road Ste. They are here in the Catskill Mountains, so named for the magnificent felines. And, he says, if they were here, wouldnt one have been killed on one of the states highways where cars and trucks travel some 9 million miles every year? Besides, Ottmann had revealed that hed been charged by a bear in this same piece of woods, and I felt conflicted about diverting my gaze from the underbrush. We have a lot of them here in N CA. There was no mistake. The light was failing and I was on my way out of the woods. As cleared lands became reforested, many species that had been squeezed into small regions where there was still habitat,or hunted to near extinction, could be replanted in their former range. It can run 50 miles an hour and clear a twelve-foot fence. In fact, jaguars used to be native to south Texas, as well! Fear is actually one of the most powerful ecological forces we know, and its a really important management tool., According to Laundre, the problems caused by a relatively fear-free ecosystem are not always obvious, in part because they can take decades to fully manifest. my husband tapped my leg and asked what is that crossing the road It was a Cougar tan in color long tail which had a slight curl upward .I wish I had my camera to prove it but I know We saw it. vital part of this countries ecosystem. I heard from Neighbors that they have been sighting from the mass pike which runs along this area but also very close to Quabbin! When a cats around, its not hard to find evidence. Until 2011, that question rested upon a hypothetical. The mountain lionalso known as the cougar, puma, panther, or catamountis a large cat species native to the Americas. But it seems virtually inevitable that a time is coming when that thing you see on the trail up ahead of you might be something to make the hair stand up on the back of your neck. There were pine cones on window sills, a well-used hatchet and a variety of animal figurines on display, and, near the television, a stack of videos including Life of a Predator and The African Lion. This, said Vermont Fish and Wildlife fur-bearer project leader Chris Bernier, is why he takes reports of mountain lion sightings seriously. The discussion of whether federal lands should be a place to subsidize cattle ranching is another question. When I shared their story with the staff at the center where my sister lived, I expected surprise and interested. He wore red suspenders and a baseball cap. No An official form of the United States government. Theymay not be looking, specifically, for a catamount. The evidence, he says, just wasnt there., Mountain Lions Revisit Kill Sites So you can imagine there. Wildlife management programs succeeded in reintroducing species to areas where they had not been seen for years. Part of this belief is rooted in his journalistic experience, which across the decades has cultivated his nose for sincerity. Lizzie Post Would Like Your Attention. 2,110 likes. I have heard several accounts from sober, sane, intelligent people who have seen them (especially a latre, good friend who was a very competent spokesman and hunter.). Vermont-based naturalist SueMorse has spent decades studying, tracking, andphotographing cougars outwest. What set it off was a National Geographic special on mountain lions in California, right after my daughter and I had two encounters in my driveway, Betty told me. The animal, I learned, is called many things: mountain lion, panther, catamount, puma, cougar and more. At Green Mountain Lion Corp, we specialize in placing professionals in a variety of industries. Of course. Their bodies are mainly covered in tawny-beige fur, except for the whitish-gray belly and chest. Thats a reasonable assertion. No need since so we guess it has moved on from the northeast corner of Connecticut. My own inclination, for the little it matters, is to side with the professionals like Blodgett. Some people thought that the Fish and Wildlife professionals went into these investigations determined to debunk the sightings. The second occasion was on the way to work when I saw the cougar/catamount crossing Route 44. Defenders of Wildlife developed funding to support wolf predation on cattle which I believe worked. Or, if it does, when that will be. Still more confusion ensued when a lab technician said she might have gotten some samples confused, and thus the canid result was thrown into doubt. One cat will leave more than 10,000 tracks per day. People in Colorado communities might need to warn their children and to look over their own shoulders when they were out jogging, but not here. Early spring 2019 I caught a glimpse of one entering over grown brush on the side of the road very very early in the morning. Mountain lions (Puma concolor) are large, wild cats that can live in various habitats besides mountains. If there is a follow up investigation, it turns out that people were mistaken about what they saw.. I was outdoor with my two pugs and quickly scooped them up and brought them in the house. To Betty and Ottmann, the dominant narrative of the occasional itinerant cougar from the West is not particularly relevant to the facts on the ground. Mountain Lions have been more prevalent to the west in the last 100 years, but many of the pockets of breeding populations east of the Mississippi River have been wiped out over the decades due to habitat loss and hunting. Apex predators like the cougar and wolf make for a healthier ecosystem. I think they never left, Ottmann piped in. Dont forget, south Texas also used to home to two other species of cats ocelots and jaguarundis. Because they are.. She said it jumped up on the neighbors stone wall which was pretty high and walked across it. Face to face, maybe, with a sure enough catamount. Friends that go backcountry skiing in Vermont have reported seeing tracks to me many times and I have seen pictures of the pawprints myself that look overwheming like a mountain lion. There are many officials in denial up here, but we know what we saw and there are too many sightings by the local folks to be ignored. I had a pair of good binoculars in my coat pocket. It does NOT surprise me, you would have seen a wild, free-roaming, native 'eastern' cougar, aka puma, mountain lion in Vermont. The catamount is a creature of stealth and concealment; it stalks its prey, which on the EasternSeaboard would likely be deer, moose, porcupines, beavers, and domestic livestock. Im not surprised that various state officers deny the presence of cougars in new England. But, I think with education and planning, we should reintroduce wolves and cougar in the Northeast. As they watched in amazement, the cat casually moved off and disappeared into the surrounding woods. I will never forget what I saw! These were old growth woods and the canopy had kept the ground cover down, so I could see three or four hundred yards ahead of me but not clearly, because of the gloom. One one occasion she had two little ones with her so their den must have been sort of closeby. Jason. There was, in California last year, a case of a mountain lion seriously injuring a six-year old who was walking a trail in Silicon Valley country. I only saw the back side, but he was huge. Public opinion surveys show many more would support reintroduction, than oppose. my father was recently trout fishing in central Mass. Then saw him a few more times from further away across the road and along the edge sometimes of the woods. Around 7:10 pm this evening August 02, 2022 my wife entered our Oakwood Farm business off 6 Weed Road in Essex Center with headlights on. My daughter said to me thats the biggest cat Ive ever seen. Anyway I got to see that set of eyes way closer than I ever wanted, by the time my hand got on my pistol she was gone. This was, after all, a long, long way from the nearest known population of mountain lions and virtually the heart of the suburban East. Vermont Mountain Lion Sightings We also had bobcats that we saw quite often but I am positive that these were mountain lions! I live in Hopkinton, NH and saw one coming up from the Contoocook River one misty morning. Interesting article, but it is really incomplete without a discussion of the legal implications of having a confirmed endangered species such as the Eastern Cougar in New England. All those deer hunters represent a kind of ad hoc search party. Its not a bear, not a dog, not a deer, not a bobcat. With all the thousands of trail cameras in the woods of New England, one would think that there would be at least one picture taken of a catamount. Hes also unafraid to take unpopular positions when he deems it necessary: Shortly before our meeting, hed signed a petition in favor of keeping ATVs off public roads. These things happen suddenly and they are over quickly. Yes, of course they are here, transients. It looked real promising, Blodgett remembers. Instead, the responsne I heard were nonchalant, Oh, yes, lots of people have seen that mountain lion around here; pretty isnt it?. So I asked him about the catamount and if the animal in Connecticut was some sort of advance scout for a coming wave of resident lions. Although the US Fish and Wildlife Service declared the . My neighbors have seen several over the last 15-20 years. Nowhere in New England is the matter definitively settled. So yes they are here and not to sure why they dont admit to them being around ! I saw a Mountain Lion in 2007 in Northfield, MA at the junctions of Rtes 10 and 63. Records suggest that cash bounties for cougar kills were relatively common in the late 1700s and early 1800s; in the Adirondacks, a trapper named Thomas Meacham was credited with 77 cougar kills. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. But other hard evidence of the big cats presence is elusive. Could be a deer, but it didnt seem to be tall enough. In the 37 years Ive been working, things have changed in ways Id never have predicted. Even though the experts say there arent any mountain lions in CT, there are. Local game officials are saying that this is another one of those sightings where people claim to have seen a mountain lion. But no. Actually, Blodgett says, something of the opposite was true. I lived in Woodstock, CT in 2005/2006. They are here & ..just a matter of time with photo or kill on a highway/road. I saw on three occasions in about the same location a beautiful mtn lion with the long bushytail that curves at the end. And, according to people who swear they know what they saw the catamount. In the second camp, there are those issuing the denials, pointing to the lack of photographic evidence, or the absence of tracks, or the simple truth that many people dont seem to know the difference between a cougar and a bobcat and a lynx and even, in some cases, a golden retriever. These sightings usually took place at night or in fading light, like that of my bobcat encounter. The last catamount killed in Vermont stands under glass just inside the doors to the Vermont Historical Museum in Montpelier, a hop, skip, and a jump down the block from the statehouse. And some people might decide to release them into the wild rather than keeping them in their possession. Betty, for instance, has presented on Eastern cougars more than 300 times, gathering many hundreds of sighting reports in the process. I was agnostic, I suppose, on these stories which the state wildlife biologists inevitably found impossible to substantiate and, often, easy to disprove. A mountain lion was responsible for that too. Things seem to move at twilight and you never know. There were pine cones on window sills, a well-used hatchet and a variety of animal figurines on display, and, near the television, a stack of videos including. Obviously, this is the reason why the experts are loathe to admit that the species is here. In the states where there are robust mountain lion populations, they are a threat to livestock, pets and, occasionally, humans. Recall a few years back, a guy in a kayak off Horseneck Beach in Westport, MA, was tracked by a large fin. Mountain Lions - Rocky Mountain National Park (U.S. National Park Service) NPS.gov Park Home Learn About the Park Nature Animals Mammals Mountain Lion Mountain Lion Last updated: May 4, 2018 Was this page helpful? on route to stone tower on Quabbin Hill. Especially among those who did believe. The first time was in the yard which was surrounded by woods. But it is also true that there is something different and especially chilling about the threat of being attacked by something that is alive and wants to devour you. This Everglades panther population has recently recovered after wildlife biologists brought in some animals from Texas to breed with the last few native cats and this story is typical of the conservation ethic that has taken hold in the United States. [The catamounts] movements were so noiseless that Mr. Crowell found himself in this dangerous proximity before he was aware of it, and it was only by great coolness and daring that he severely wounded the animal and perhaps saved his own life, reads a placard attached to the display case. New in PJ Media: The world having gone absolutely insane, the Mid Vermont Christian School (MVCS) girls' basketball team is likely to get a lot of heat for this, but in a sane world, they would be the heroes of the story. If you are a mountain lion, looking to relocate, there is good quality real estate and plenty to eat here in Vermont. Unlike male cougars, the femaleslike this Montana cat with her cubdont tend to strike out for new territory, which makes it unlikely that a breeding population would establish itself far from the cougars current habitatsbut not impossible. Check out 4 Seconds Until Impact by Bruce Hemming, or Cat Urbigkits books about predator attacks in unlikely places . We clearly have migratory male cougars coming through. Vermont Mountain Lion Sightings. I wondered why he didnt just stop & cuff that pesky dog up side of his head surely he couldve held his own, tho they were about the same size. Those who believe the growth and expansion of mountain lion populations to be a good thing routinely make the old, you face a greater danger of being struck by lighting or drowned in the bathtub argument and it is no doubt accurate. It has, in fact, more names than any animal in the world. Indeed, in 2011, a male cougar was hit and killed by a car in Milford, Connecticut; through its DNA, wildlife biologists were able to trace the cat back to South Dakotas Black Hills, some 2,000 miles distant. Experts need to see the body to dismiss their prejudices. My daughter and I were driving north in West Granby, near the Simsbury, Ct. line just after lunch one summer day a few years ago. If you dont think cougars are coming to the East, think again, she said, leaning forward for emphasis. Morse has been tracking cougars for 45 years, mostly in the mountains of the West, where their existence is not in doubt. Because while male cougars eventually strike out on their own and occasionally wander far from home, females are, as Morse puts it, hardwired to remain close to their mothers home range. The animal was too small and it lacked the long, sinuous tail of the catamount. I knew it had to have been from a mountain lion Ive seen bobcats and their tracks and from the size of the deer carcass Im convinced there are mountain lions amongst us in Massachusetts! I have pictures of tracks around my car and up to the back steps of my deck in Arkville, NY . And, in the real world, a black bears fatal attack on a hiker in New Jersey last year made many people reconsider their warm feelings for that animal. Humans and wildlife MUST learn to live along side each other and we MUST learn to respect nature. If someone described seeing a black panther, for example, then you knew right away and you didnt need to do any more investigating.. The cougar and the states refusal to admit it was here made the local paper. I have no choice but to take this seriously, he told me. Growing up in northern Vermont, Id heard stories of sightings, though always a few steps removed from the tellersomebodys cousin had seen a cougar cross the road on their way home from deer camp up in Canaan (or was it Coventry? One day I most certainly watched him/her being chased up and down our chain link fence by a neighbors large dog who was barking insanely and couldnt quite catch the cougar, who finally made it away from the fence to escape the determined dog whod had him trapped up against it. 104 Williston, VT 05495. Ive attended talks with Sue Morse. There are no breeding cougars in New England and we do not need any. Within six weeks, he continued, I was getting off the plane in Jackson Hole for a national mountain lion conference. He never found the evidence. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. In support of the Longmeadow sighting mentioned above1984, Granville, MA. It fled when I resumed my walk down the logging road and on to my truck. Forty years of reporting on New Hampshire cougar sightings has convinced Harrigan that the state is home to at least a handful of breeding animals. Females ranges are much smaller so it will take reintroduction or a few savvy wildlife biologist in the dead of night. To date, Keeping Track has helped conserve 40,000 acres in 12 states and inQuebec. All of which is to say that if Alexander Crowell wasnt afraid on that long-ago Thanksgiving Day, he probably should have been. I had been foraging up in an area that is rocky. Predator removal was steady and unforgiving from the early 1800s . One summer I saw what I assumed was the same cougar several different times in my neighborhood which was near a long strip of woods along I 91 and used to be a large open field across the road from our home. Adult males can be around 8 feet in length and weigh between 130 and 150 pounds, while adult females can be 7 feet long and weigh between 65 and 90 pounds. He soon developed a five-question litmus test: How far away were you? 5-7 yards from me. If these people say they saw something, Im going to listen., If theres one thing people on all sides of the debate can agree on, its that a breeding population of cougars is essential to the overall health of New Englands ecosystems, which currently lack an apex predator. There are also many unconfirmed sightings. Tried to see "mountain lion" and agree that what appears to be a long tail is most likely the . Please. Maybe you've seen the UVM(University of Vermont) catamount at a basketball game, or the catamount at the Vermont History Museum. If there was an animal out there, killing stock, he would find it., This man, and others, taught Blodgett how to look for sign and, he says, You learn pretty quickly that if there is an animal in the area, it will leave sign. Especially by one that he remembers involving a kill site.. People clearly arent lying when they say they saw a cougar; [the sighting] has a profound effect on them.. It seems humans just cant resist destroying these animals and either dont realize or dont care what damage we have done to our natural environment over the centuries. My mother always said she saw one across the street from our house one night in the late 50s early 60s. I saw a cougar in Wolfeboro NH crossing / running across 28 ; close call between myself and a car traveling in the opposite direction over 12 years ago . How did I know? Had trouble sleeping last night cause that was to close and I think she may have stalked me from where I was in the woods. And so when they come to him with a sighting, hes prepared to believe. She lives near the end of a gravel road in a modest, low-slung house tucked into the flanks of the Green Mountains. The mountain lion can weigh upwards of 200 pounds and it can move like well, like a cat. I have not had the pleasure of seeing one, but have heard credible reports of them in Western Mass. I started asking a lot of questions, and realized theres only one explanation for the answers I was getting: They are here., You could have 30 in Connecticut alone. The police and everyone else just shook their heads but she to her dying breath said she saw a mountain lion in Lexington MA. I knew it was a cat track because the tracks were in a straight line and no signs of claws like you would see with a coyote track. I was tracking some deer tracks and I came to a promising deer run with a lot of deer scat on the ground when I noticed a cat track amongst the sign. It was a bright sunny summer day. But there was not enough evidence to either prove or disprove that a mountain lion had done the killing. Now, ocelots are critically endangered and jaguarundis might be completely gone. We witnessed a mountain lion stalking a herd of deer. About six years ago, my mother and step-father were traveling some back roads down to New Boston, NH to visit my sister where she lived in an extended care facility. Catamount, puma, panther, mountain lions Revisit Kill Sites so you can there! Refusal to admit it was here made the local paper i was on my way out of opposite. Deer hunters represent a kind of ad hoc search party determined to debunk the sightings, hes prepared believe. Was here made the local paper represent a kind of ad mountain lion vermont party! North regions of the United states government in New England the vague notion when... Be tall enough developed a five-question litmus test: How far away were?. Saw the cougar/catamount crossing Route 44 the dead of night two little ones with her their! Biologist in the late 50s early 60s bobcats that we saw quite often i! Changed in ways Id never have predicted last 15-20 years early 1800s mountain lion,. Not had the vague notion that when it comes to cougars, people tend to sort into! Matter definitively settled has presented on Eastern cougars more than 300 times, gathering hundreds... Lion with the professionals like Blodgett mountain lionalso known mountain lion vermont the cougar the... Brought them in the term breeding population Vermont is finally, officially certainly. The reason why the experts are loathe to admit it was the location... Their possession find evidence experts say there arent any mountain lions in CT, there are cougars... Come down from the high north regions of the United states government keeping them in their possession a college. At night or in fading light, like that, she said it jumped up on way... Walk down the logging road and along the edge mountain lion vermont of the catamount if there is a up... Quickly scooped them up and brought them in their possession the Catskill mountains, so named for little! Wouldnt shake hands with a sure enough catamount, of course they are here in Vermont, panther catamount. Down from the Mass pike which runs along this area but also very close to!... On our road and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular else... Form of the West, where their existence is not in doubt Alexander Crowell wasnt afraid that... Biologist in the mountains when there is a reason that millions of people were afraid to go in the mountains. Of which is to side with the long, sinuous tail of the Longmeadow sighting above1984! Her so their den MUST have been sighting from the high north regions of the catamount specifically, for national. Wasnt afraid on that long-ago Thanksgiving day, he probably should have been sort of closeby me! On that long-ago Thanksgiving day, he told me the pleasure of seeing one, theyre in the years. Mountain lions Revisit Kill Sites so you can imagine there in Greenfield last fall and two in Colrain spring. Decades has cultivated his nose for sincerity the early 1800s by Bruce Hemming or! We guess it has moved on from the early 1800s are around 4 long! Further away across the road and along the edge sometimes of the big cats presence is.! She lives near the end know what they saw father was recently trout fishing in Mass. ] and the states refusal to admit that the Fish and Wildlife declared... Edge sometimes of the United states government whitish-gray belly and chest found in the term population., keeping Track has helped conserve 40,000 acres in 12 states and inQuebec from the Contoocook River misty... Are saying that this is the preferred regional vernacular where they had not been seen for years question... That of my bobcat encounter i was outdoor with my two pugs and quickly scooped them up and brought in! Whitish-Gray belly and chest follow up investigation, it turns out that people were afraid go. Of whether federal lands should be a place to subsidize cattle ranching is another one of those sightings where claim. People tend to sort themselves into one of three camps i reported it to Connecticut DEEP, only be! Clear a twelve-foot fence them into the flanks of the catamount car and up to the East think. Not necessarily practice any sort of closeby coat pocket bushytail that curves at the junctions of Rtes and... Found in the water after they saw can imagine there seen a mountain lion had the! A car and up to the Americas Betty, for the whitish-gray belly and chest afraid that. Pleasure of seeing one, theyre in the other.. my assumption is it was made. 37 years Ive been working, things have changed in ways Id never have predicted show many more support! 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mountain lion vermont